The second of many, I think. :P

[teddog]

[15:17] hwilde1912: Frank> Let's have an orgy!
Kitty> Like, yeah, really!
Joel> Are the Keebler elves coming? Or... cumming?
Bonnie> You bastard! :::weeps:::
Mike> :::like another airhead::: But I wanna cuddle! Like, really! Phsaw!
Clay> First, let me come up with a brilliant, insane plot to make everyone want to have sex constantly with everything that has a pulse!
[15:17] hwilde1912: KITT> I'm human! I want to completely have sexx0rz!
[15:18] hwilde1912: OMG, Rach. We're going to BURN IN HELL FOR THIS!
[15:18] CommanderTeddog: Good. We can get a condo there.
[15:18] hwilde1912: My soul. It has expired.
[15:18] hwilde1912: It is gone, alas, and never to return.
[15:18] hwilde1912: Enrico> Damn.

More of it here.

Later:

[15:35] CommanderTeddog: .... man, office talk gets nasty.
[15:35] hwilde1912: Eh?
[15:36] CommanderTeddog: Whenever we chat at work, this happens.
[15:36] hwilde1912: I don't think we've ever reached this level before.
[15:36] CommanderTeddog: ::nodnods:: This is a new level of... something....
[15:36] hwilde1912: It's like crossing into uncharted territory, and finding the sickness that lurks in the hearts of man.
[15:36] hwilde1912: And slashy fangirls.
[15:36] CommanderTeddog: And fangirls.
[15:36] hwilde1912: ::grins::
[15:37] CommanderTeddog: You're in my brain against. :D
[15:37] CommanderTeddog: *Again
[15:37] CommanderTeddog: Look, you broke it too. This is why I can't have nice things.
[15:37] hwilde1912: LOL!!
[15:39] hwilde1912: Okay, enough. Blaaaah.

Even LATER:

[15:45] hwilde1912: Oh, it wouldn't. It's just trying to crawl back out of Hell and back into salvation.
[15:46] CommanderTeddog: ... I'm now thinking of a twisted version of Dante's Inferno. Enrico as Virgil and Nance as Beatrice.
[15:47] hwilde1912: ::chuckles:: I'm more wondering if the slashy fangirls will quietly seethe to themselves that we dare parody them.
[15:48] CommanderTeddog: I hope we didn't fuel the fire.
[15:49] hwilde1912: I doubt it. I think it's pretty obvious that it's a parody.
[15:49] hwilde1912: Like...
[15:50] CommanderTeddog: Subtext = Buttsex, though. ::frowns::
[15:52] CommanderTeddog: Damnit. Last thing we need is ShadowKnight suddenly with little kitty ears
[15:53] hwilde1912: BrainBreak Theater Presents: Brokeback Satellite!

Act I:
Clay> I must recapture Joel and send him back to the SOL. Because if I do that, it will completely ruin the premise for my experiment and force two heterosexual Midwestern males to throw aside all of their repressed Midwestern upbringing and have wild monkey sex! That will give me the opportunity to have wild monkey sex with that gorgeous male model Frank, who has a body like a butterball turkey and that's unbearably appealing to me, though the fact that me bottoming would result in suffocation!

Act II:
Joel> :::holding Mike's jumpsuit to his face:: I don't know why I can't quit you!
Mike> :::about to hang himself from the ceiling::: I don't know why I would give up my strongly right-wing leanings and church-going philosophy in order to give you the opportunity to 'start' me to begin with!
[15:54] CommanderTeddog: OMFG You've lost it.
[15:54] hwilde1912: Yes. I have. Please, put one between my eyes so that I might be put out of my misery.
[15:54] hwilde1912: ...but you have to admit. It is funny, in a very satirical way.
[15:56] CommanderTeddog: Yep.

Comments

[msp-hacker.livejournal.com]

Honestly, would anyone be in this fandom if they couldn't take a parody? I think the Brokenback Moutain riff is funny, and I'm one of the mods at the mst3k slash group.

Actually, if it was a little longer I'd ask to archive it.

And if someone is wondering about bullets, I'm sure there's a libratarian!Mike running around somewhere. Actually, post-SOL Mike probably would be libratarian, if not in politics than in ideology now that I think of it...

[commanderteddog.livejournal.com]

And if someone is wondering about bullets, I'm sure there's a libratarian!Mike running around somewhere.

Good for him. However, if the crossovers through both posts weren't enough to tip you off, this is IP&S!Mike, who just happens to be a (nearly) post-SOL Mike and not a libertarian. That's like saying post-PoG Rick would shift from being a left leaning Liberal/New Democrat to a Bloc member.

[slwatson.livejournal.com]

Funny, libertarianism doesn't make much sense in the context of all things 'Mike'; Joel, maybe, but a post-SOL libertarian Mike would still have to be canon-warped to fit the philosophy. Particularly given that libertarians are anti-public education, anti-welfare, anti-safety laws, etc, etc. They believe in legalizing prostitution, drug-use, etc.

As to gun-ownership rights, however, one thing that makes no sense is that the libertarian philosophy is to not abridge or interfere with anyone *else's* rights -- so, a libertarian putting one between my eyes would be completely at odds with that philiosophy.

Given that MJN is an admitted center-right Republican, and given most of his character's canon characterization, the strongest political/philosophical alignment for Mike is that of a center-right Democrat -- someone who does believe strongly in civil rights, but not anarchy; someone who is strongly in favor of the middle class and blue-collar workers everywhere (which isn't surprising, given that he's one of them), but who's also reasonably religious (though not to the point of preaching to those who aren't). Given that canon!Mike mirrors his real-life counterpart in quite a few ways, the biggest stretch one could ever make is Mike being an absolutely center Democrat.

A little research goes a long way.

[msp-hacker.livejournal.com]

Actually, I was thinking the libratarian's thoughts on euthinasia at that point. But since I'm realizing that joke wasn't particuarly funny, I'm going to drop and conceede the point.

I ignore everything about the Brains that I hear except what they're currently working, so even though I know MJN views on various things, I tend to purposely ignore it. The only things I do usually allow to think about is the birthdate - otherwise I just feel like I'm infinging on their privac, even if they said it in a interview or what havenot.

The libratarian thing was speculation that upon Mike's return to Earth, he would like others to kindly stay out of his busniess. And since the libratarian party is pretty big in Wisconsin, I thought he might share some of those traits.

[slwatson.livejournal.com]

I ignore everything about the Brains that I hear except what they're currently working, so even though I know MJN views on various things, I tend to purposely ignore it. The only things I do usually allow to think about is the birthdate - otherwise I just feel like I'm infinging on their privac, even if they said it in a interview or what havenot.

I tend to use whatever research materials I can in order to write well. For the most part, given that I am not personally a middle-aged Midwestern male, I can't hope to write about one accurately unless I do the footwork. Given that MJN is the closest real-life equivalent of Mike, what information can be gleaned from his interviews are absolutely useful in correctly characterizing his character. *Especially* Season 5 Mike, who was pretty much MJN but unmarried and from a slightly different profession (temp, instead of TGI Fridays).

Interviews and background are fair game. Not only do they help lead to a realistic characterization that stands the test of time, but they're just fun to read for the sake of saying, "So *that's* where that riff came from."

Generally speaking, purposefully ignoring research materials is like trying to write an essay for school by bullshitting your way through it and hoping your teacher's dumb enough to buy it. It just doesn't work.

The libratarian thing was speculation that upon Mike's return to Earth, he would like others to kindly stay out of his busniess. And since the libratarian party is pretty big in Wisconsin, I thought he might share some of those traits.

Having a strong belief in civil rights does not make one a libertarian. Nor does location and a prolification of people who are. Libertarianism (generally speaking) is a very extreme political alignment, and doesn't brook much middle-ground. If there is one thing we learn about ole Mike in the series, it's that he is pretty much your average, Midwestern born, Midwestern raised guy who let a perfectly mundane life until he ended up on the SOL. And from our brief look at post-canon Mike, it's fairly easy to guess that he went right back to being an average Midwestern guy.

Inevitably, the argument still holds no water. I think you're confusing a strong believe in civil rights and personal liberties with a political alignment that (as I mentioned above) has some extremely anti-Mike things about it -- no education, no law, legal drugs and prostitution. Center-to-center right Democrat is probably much closer to the truth.

[msp-hacker.livejournal.com]

I was talking about a random Mike being a libratarian, not Brokenback Satellite Mike - who IP&S Mike, correct? I didn't actually connect the two, but now that you mention it, I see it.

[msp-hacker.livejournal.com]

I'd rather sound incomptent - which I already do, I suppose - than feel horrible about prying into people's lives, whether I am breaching their privacy or not.

As to the libratraian!Mike, I'm sure he exists somewhere, if not as a strict interpretation of cannon, then as cannon-suggested alternate universe. Regular Cannon Post-SOL Mike is probably Democratic - being that he lives in the city and not the 'burbs or rural eastern Wisconsin, which tend to be more republican than the city areas or rural western Wisconsin.

[commanderteddog.livejournal.com]

The characters through the whole thing are mostly standard IP&S parodies: Kitty being an airhead, Enrico Gruen the Soultaker, KITT wanting sex. Sorta extremes of bad canon and fanon. So yes, it's safe to assume that it's a parody of IP&S Mike in Brokenback Satellite.

However, to support Steff, I can't see Mike as a Libertarian. It's too "out there" for a goofy little farmboy.

[commanderteddog.livejournal.com]

I'd rather sound incomptent - which I already do, I suppose - than feel horrible about prying into people's lives, whether I am breaching their privacy or not.

... yet you're on Livejournal?

But the issue is that you aren't prying into someone's personal life by reading an interview and pulling out information. It's like... okay, last semester I research CityTV for college and poked around in interviews with Moses Znaimer and Allan Waters and their business lives. I could have taken the easy route and used the popular idea that Moses Znaimer is really God of Canadian media or at least CHUM, which is seriously what kids in Southern Ontario are raised to think. However, after digging through interviews, you find out that Allan Waters as been pulling the strings for a very long time. The difference between being incompetent or not there is a matter of having a paper that has vapour content or a discussion that has merit.

The info is out there. The writers/actors/whatever decided for it to be out there, or else they wouldn't mention it to the public.

Commander Rick's my main and usual example (excuse me for bringing him up again). It's clear Rick is from the Toronto area; there is no other excuse for all the Toronto references that he makes. Surprise, surprise, Rick Green lives in the area too. Toronto is a real place. I'm going to look like a total ass if I write "Then Rick rounded the corner of King and Queen, storming south through Chinatown and up the 50 steps to TVOntario's front door, coming face to face with Enrico." Yeah. That whole passage was bullshit; King and Queen are parallel, Chinatown and TVOntario are far away from each other and the entrance to TVOntario is on the first floor, maybe up 5 steps at most. I'd rather know what I'm talking about than sound like an idiot.

And you can't blame me that my local subway stop is UNDER TVOntario, so I pass it every time I go out. That isn't prying, that's just good fangirl luck.

[slwatson.livejournal.com]

I'd rather sound incomptent - which I already do, I suppose - than feel horrible about prying into people's lives, whether I am breaching their privacy or not.

Do you watch the news? Read the newspaper? Then you're prying into people's lives every day, if we were to go by your definition of 'prying'. I'm certainly not booking a ticket to Saint Paul to track these guys down, but I figure their public interviews on public websites are absolutely fair game.

Regular Cannon Post-SOL Mike is probably Democratic - being that he lives in the city and not the 'burbs or rural eastern Wisconsin, which tend to be more republican than the city areas or rural western Wisconsin.

Either or, he's probably like 90% of other Middle Americans, and that would be a moderate. The Alternate Universe theory means anything (even something really outlandish) is possible -- the question is all about probabilities.

Eh, it's been a bad night. Political discussion over.
Eh.

[slwatson.livejournal.com]

The Brokeback Satellite one was a parody of canon/fanon!Mike, more than anything -- IP&S canon only deviates from MST3K canon right before Diabolik and therefore Mike and Joel are only on the SOL together one time, and that's Soultaker. Therefore, it's not IP&S!Mike in any form, really. The Clay parody is loosely based on typical cliches used, most notably TechnoServo's, with the really gross slash notion of Clay/Frank thrown in.

The cuddlewhore!Mike is the IP&S parody, which is a very long and amusing story that has its own canon. And an ion cannon. And... yeah, I'm gonna just not talk anymore.

[msp-hacker.livejournal.com]

I'm mearly saying that I feel uncomfertable reading interviews - especially MJN interviews. I'm not saying that anyone is stalking anyone else, it's just one of the things that I don't like to do so I don't do it.

And now I'm done.

[msp-hacker.livejournal.com]

The Brains made it public information in the first place so I don't care if others don't read it. I just don't like reading them because it makes me feel odd.

I'm not saying that I hold others to these standards, and I don't attempt to. I just do what feels right for me in this case, which is that I chose not to read the interviews. I do read everything else out there.

And yes, I still feel werid about reading about others' lives on livejournal.

[slwatson.livejournal.com]

I'm mearly saying that I feel uncomfertable reading interviews - especially MJN interviews. I'm not saying that anyone is stalking anyone else, it's just one of the things that I don't like to do so I don't do it.

Why? Is it because he makes it clear many times over that he's not only happily married, but has sons as well? That he believes in God, goes to church, helps his wife organize Sunday school classes?

It's funny that you would pick Michael's articles and interviews to get edgy about. It's a lot harder to write slash about someone who has such an overtly normal lifestyle, and is obviously happy in it, isn't it? Sure, with Joel or Trace, you don't hear about their home lives -- Joel's not married, Trace maybe is but he doesn't confirm it anywhere -- but Michael is proud of his family. Proud to be Midwestern, proud to have sons, proud of his wife. And while you can argue (and to some degree, it is true) that characters and actors are entirely separate... with that little cow-town puppet show, the lines are far more blurred than they are in most other TV series.

I think that it bothers you to read that because it's much easier to pretend in your little world that all of them are entirely slashable, and if you don't have *context*, you can pretend that there's subtext everywhere. Except, there is context. And there are a whole lot of us out here who pay very close attention to that context. And that context pretty much negates your entire view of the characters involved.

I also think some part of you knows all of this, and it drives you crazy. You call yourself an 'unrepentant slasher', yet you wouldn't try to defend yourself if you were truly 'unrepentant'. You would just 'la la la' and pretend that your critics don't exist, and your happy world comprises solely of those who're like you.

Likewise, I think part of you worries that the BBIers would come across your work. Heck, even I've wondered what they would think if they came across mine. I came to the conclusion that they would probably find it amusing (and maybe silly or pathetic) that I took a little cow-town puppet show so seriously. But I do know that, chances are, they wouldn't be deeply offended by anything that I wrote... and might even think some of it's not too bad.

I don't think you could say the same.

I didn't believe you were impossibly irredeemable as an author, even though slash in MST3K makes me want to pull a Fargo -- I was willing to give you a chance. I tried to explain to you why empathy was so important, to wit you kept giving me reasons as to why you couldn't show empathy towards the characters you write. I tried to explain to you why research is so important, and you still try to bullshit your way through. That's a very shoddy way to go through life, and especially through writing.

You don't have to answer to me. In fact, you don't really have to answer to anyone -- you could just keep writing half-assed, without bothering with empathy or research. And in five or ten years, when you've faded off of the internet and perhaps lived a little more life, all of those tales of yours won't even be memories. The public has a short memory for substandard work.

And all of the authors who did care -- Paula, Mike, Beth, and yours truly -- will still be out there, still read, still remembered.

In the end, I don't think any of this will sink in. Either you'll pull a flash of sixteen-year-old rebellion and say, "How dare she?!" or you'll pay me lipservice which translates to, "Yeah, whatever." Or, you'll whine back with the ever faithful, "I only do this for fun, I don't care what you say." Which is fine. You don't have to care.

But I still do care. I've been meaning to say this to you for quite some time; and now I have. Whether or not it bounces off, sinks in or otherwise isn't my problem. It's off my chest now.

[vonandmoggy.livejournal.com]

You know what's sad? Reading all of this (plus the comments) and realizing that I do not have one clue what is being discussed. Sigh. Maybe it's because I have a bugger of a cold?

Me no understand me.

Von

[slwatson.livejournal.com]

But your artwork rocks my world.

[commanderteddog.livejournal.com]

I'll attempt to translate:

I usually talk to Steff (SLWatson/hwilde1912) in the afternoons at work. Yesterday, we got into a very odd and amusing (to us) tangent about strange pairings in fandom. It got very out of control, and resulting in some stupid bits we personally found amusing.

As for the comments, MSPHacker is a "slasher"; fandom term for a person that enjoys seeing fandom guy on guy action. In her case, she likes it for Mystery Science Theater 3000. Some of the pairings paroded were from the series (other series referenced up there were Knight Rider, X-Men and Prisoners of Gravity).

It then breaks down into a discussion of characters, their political leanings and research in terms of fandom and roleplaying. It's the latter terms that would make the discussion hard to understand.

[vonandmoggy.livejournal.com]

You just made my day.

Thank you! :)

Von

[vonandmoggy.livejournal.com]

Gotcha. I think. I was feeling a bit like Country Mouse, y'know? Especially odd since I'm very much a sci-fi/comic geek. It's weird, though - despite that, my experiences with fandom is quite limited. Don't know why, but I never dived into fan writing or cons like many other people seem to. That doesn't mean I don't like - I just never got into it.

Thanks for the explanation, though! Much appreciated! :)

Von

[slwatson.livejournal.com]

You're welcome!

[commanderteddog.livejournal.com]

The fandom beast is a strange beast, you know? It really depends on what series you're into. Some series have massive, often batshit insane, fandoms and people get dragged into making "fan crap" (art, fiction, costumes, etc). On the other hand, some fandoms just don't have much. PoG had some funky fictional backstory nonsense going on (Control and what it is, Reality One and why it's up there, etc) but I doubt that there was much fan material exploring it even back in the TVOntario years. Same with Buckaroo Banzai, to pull a random interest off your list. You just know there's more going on in that universe, but nobody ever bothers with it.

I must admit my all time favourite of "I can't believe there's fan fiction for that" is a serious fic based on the X-Men movie universe in where Magneto meets Ed Gruberman. Yeah, the character from the Frantics skits.

[commanderteddog.livejournal.com]

It just comes across as a very odd standard, especially from viewed from the point of view of a person who lives on the study of pop culture.

To be honest, I felt "odd" about reading interviews of people I respected for a long time. Like, Marshall McLuhan, for an extreme example. However, when I got in touch with my emotions, it turned out to be both:

A) I was misreading extreme giddiness. As in, couch bouncing fangirl giddiness. I was embarrassed to fangirl things, mostly because I was scared to be happy because of...
B) Shyness. I was scared that the Powers That Be would have something against me, even though I had great respect for them.

This was back at a time when I was extremely self conscious, which is not now. I was scared of people seeing Signal Loss in general; now I think it's a hoot that I get fan mail or that someone joining my Red Green fanlisting thinks I'm a staff member on the show. It also helps that I've had time to grow up and stand on my own two feet. In the past, I would have been scared to be in the same room as Mr. Green. Now, I'm going to see him on stage and I'm going to damn well enjoy it.

[commanderteddog.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I misread. And we did have the earlier AU Brokeback parody, so I must have had my wires crossed.

I do have the rising urge to screencap Enrico tonight and photoshop him into some Soultaker scenes. Or, at the very least, draw him in a soultaker outfit. He really does walk the line. :P

I also have the unbearably cute image of all of ShadowKnight dressed up in tailor made suits and ties, posed around the fireplace. It's like the family photo for the Mafia of KICK ASS.

[vonandmoggy.livejournal.com]

"I don't want no boot to the head."

I just have a hard time seeing Ed Gruberman say that to Mags. :)

Von