teddog: (In Soviet Russia broadcast hijacks you!)
[personal profile] teddog
Okay, so cranky people of the internet can be aware: I SAW WATCHMEN. This now validates all of the opinions I've held. Interestingly enough, the big ones didn't change

I enjoyed Watchmen. It isn't a perfect movie and it's hard for me to judge if I'm a good point of view for discussing a film version, since I've read the comic. I heard it's hard to follow if you haven't read it yet - can anyone confirm that or is it just random people complaining?

Eh, I'll quickly do some point form thoughts under the cut.



- I liked the opening credits, although the effect probably works better on the big screen. It also only really works if you've read the book, since many of the characters are only mentioned in passing.

- WHY is the name "Crimebusters" changed to "Watchmen"? I feel like I'm being treated like an idiot. "Viewers won't know what the title refers to! We need to make it more clear!"

- Ah yes, the gay panic thing. I know some people have talked about there being papers online already about this. I'm very curious and want to read them. There are some points that seem to be comments related to the LGBT community that really serve no purpose except being there. They are references to things from the comic book, but I felt that in the context of the comic they mostly served to flesh out that Rorschach had deep issues with his sexuality.

- Manhattan's penis. From everyone's comments, I was expecting this to be wagging in my face. It was out of scale with the one from the comic, but there was less of it than I was expecting.

- Fight scenes. I think that most of these were just padding or an excuse to make this movie more of a super hero movie.

- Ugh, the rape related stuff. I think that the movie was too light with the emotional fallout from this. There's some attempts at it, but I think fall flat.

- Was I the only person who thought that the Tears for Fears song was funny but might have been a misfire? It's not really anything more than a strange, awkward joke. I laughed, but still.

- I'm greatly amused that the political figures are played to the point of parody. Check out Nixon's nose!

- The guy who played Kissinger especially cracked me up.

- I perfered the comic version of the Blair Roche incident.

- WHY DID THEY CUT VEIDT ON THE TV DURING THAT SEX SCENE? That was the best part of the epic fail! :(

- Third sex scene was awkward. I think that they were attempting comedy that late into the story, because of how dark the movie gets. Like the fight scenes, I think this was padding when none was needed.

- I think the movie drives home the complex relationship between Nite Owl and Rorschach, but I'm undecided on if they're too blunt getting the point across. I picked up on it in the comic, but in the movie, it's more direct. I do think it's one of the more interesting subplots in the book, especially when you mirror Rorschach's fall to the Comedian's fall.

- The ending is passable. I like the squid because the squid is just so over the top and I kinda miss him. And yes, I DID see the Squid monitor.

- There are a lot of subtle details in the film, including some that Laura was picking up for just the first time.

- That said, there are a lot of subplots cut out for time. Some of these make sense, but others, like the fate of Hollis, would clear up some of the main plot. I don't feel that the film is incomplete in the format it's presented in and adding things like the Tales of the Black Freighter would serve only as fan service. Tales of the Black Freighter is neat, but it's tied deeply to the squid plot, which is tossed out completely in the film. Unless the filmmakers can prove outside, I don't think the movie can gain anything from it.

- On a final note, I was amused by the reference to The Architects of Fear. This, again, makes me wonder if a good amount of this film is just intended for fan service. This would explain why WB is cranking about the numbers that the film is getting - they wanted the fanboys to push it forward.


And now that all that is said and done, I please remember that I did enjoy the film. I just think too much.

Date: 2009-03-20 11:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] urufudo.livejournal.com
Just remember that there's going to be an extended edition that has about 40 minutes of extra footage edited back into the film plus the Tales of the Black Frieghter. So the movie will be about 3.5 hours long, give or take. They actually have filmed all of the cut scenes with the newspaper/comic guys.

Also, after seeing it for a second time, I'm 100% certain that they have shot the scene where Nite Owl strangles the knot-top guy in the bar, asking what happened to Hollis. Plus, there's also a song on the score called "Who Killed Hollis Mason?" ^^ The way that they cut the scene, there's a part where Nite Owl actually looks at a knot-top guy and it cuts without showing them leaving.

The first sex scene was still funny in the epic fail sense. XD But yeah, it would have been funnier with the Veidt on TV. I guess they felt that they could leave it out... which is a little weird since they've been really good at putting a lot of subtle stuff into the film. I actually liked the third sex scene. I laughed because of the song, but I didn't think it was weird or awkward. I'm glad they kept it in. I don't think it was meant to be an attempt at comedy at all.

I also like the fight scenes, because it's nice to actually see all the characters kicking ass. XD

I'm kind of interested in a couple things you mention, like the Architects of Fear. I've still yet to go back and read all of the backstory notes for each chapter and stuff. :O But I liked the ending too. The only thing I don't like about it is that it forces Dr. Manhattan to leave; he could never come back. Makes me a little sad to think that Laurie, Dan and Adrian will never get to see him again, but that's just me thinking too much about what would happen after the story's over. I also like that Laurie and Dan didn't get those horrid hair cuts and change their names. -_-; I thought that part was kind of lame, though understandable considering the police found out who Dan was in the comics.

All in all, I think I love the movie because it brings the characters to life. I have nothing against the art in the comic, but just seeing them as real people is.. I dunno, just really cool. XD Plus the color palettes and the soundtrack are just so awesome. *_*

Date: 2009-03-20 12:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] commanderteddog.livejournal.com
What I'm saying is that I feel that the movie doesn't need the Tales of the Black Freighter parts because of how it's structured. Although, it slipped my mind that it would clear up that Rorschach is the man with the sign.

I missed that part in the bar. I know they filmed it ([livejournal.com profile] pyat mentioned that there's scenes of it in the Japanese trailer) and it's going in the extended edition, but it seems bizarre that they cut it out for the current release when it's a major part of Dan's character arc.

Tears for Fears song was the Everybody Wants to Rule the World bit. I've heard people complain about the music in the last sex scene. That wasn't the part that I felt was awkward. I'm thinking of when Laurie slams the button of the flame thrower at the end.

The Architects of Fear isn't in the backstory notes (I THINK), but it's why an episode of The Outer Limits shows up in comic and the movie. It's such a bizarre little reference.

Well, I don't think Dr. Manhattan would ever come back in the comic version either. I'm under the impression that that's when he more or less became God. Earth was home to far too many emotional entanglements and heartbreak and there was no way for him to live their happily ever again. Also, with the cancer scandal, I think it dawned of him that he was immortal and that he'd be witness to everyone he loved and cared about dying. Hell, he would KNOW when they died.

I liked the comic's ending with Laurie and Dan, because it proved that Dan was a massive fanboy (which, granted, IS mentioned in the movie depending on how you read Sally's comment about the man who writes to her) and there's an odd sidenote with Laurie. A lot of people read her comments about her plans for a new costume as a final acceptance of the Comedian as her father. While she doesn't approve of the actions of him and her mother mostly because it means that her mother is emotionally messed in the head, it's the final push to get Laurie moving out from living in her mother's shadow, taking matters into her own hands and becoming a full person in her own right. Which is another thing that I'm curious if it's in extended edition, because there's one or two lines in the film about it, but it was the heart of her character arc in the comic.

Date: 2009-03-20 01:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lee-in-limbo.livejournal.com
I think with that third scene that Zack was trying to push buttons and limits the way that Alan and Dave did in the comic back in the 80s. It still wasn't pornographic, but it was visceral and taken to a point where very few Hollywood films have dared to go. As uncomfortable as that may have been for many people, I think the entire sequence would have lost its teeth if they hadn't made it as sweaty and angsty and drawn out as it had been. It wasn't tender and sweet, and it wasn't cleverly faded away from before the point of how messed up these two really were was made.

I think the LGBT stuff was handled about as well as it could be. I personally felt that the credit sequence and Rorschach's rundown of the deaths on his way to the research base were a bit awkward, but sadly necessary.

Still, I don't think Zack made a misstep there, because my wife had never read the graphic novel, and she was able to follow the plot. I'd have preferred the squid plot, though. The film is a bit too earnest at times, and lacks the gonzo SCI-FI!-ness of Veidt's original plan. I dearly wish that they would put that back in for the DVD. Doc Manhattan was leaving anyway, so that was convenient, but frankly, it leaves the country with a 'real' reason to hate costumed heroes, which muddies what Dan and Laurie get up to after the story is over.

Lee.

Date: 2009-03-20 03:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] commanderteddog.livejournal.com
Oh, no. I'm not going "OMG! SEX! DIRTY". At the same time, it felt really... out of place? Like it dragged longer than it should have? I'm not sure, but I know that I wasn't looking for it to be gentle and sweet. You are correct, though, that it was meant to show that Dan and Laurie were just as messed in the head as everyone else.

I'm thinking more about the side comment about Hooded Justice in the attempted rape scene, although the bit with Silhouette in the opening was a bit strange. I thought she kept her sexuality a guarded secret and there she was making a public display.

I felt the squid also worked because it gave everyone a threat that they saw as being outside of Earth, so Earth HAD to unite against what appeared to be an evil alien. I also liked that Veidt didn't just work only scientists into the plot, but also artists and the like because he knew that it wouldn't work on just a blunt display of power. It needed to be truly horrific on an aesthetic level and there in lies Veidt's genius. The whole plan was so over the top, but it worked perfectly.

The movie ending twists that meaning somewhat and I felt that it was pretty much kicking Manhattan when he was already down, although it also raises the question of why Veidt bothered with the cancer plot on Manhattan's end in the movie. It's like Vedit won on accident. On the public's end, it was clearly meant to raise fear, but I'm curious if Veidt understood the full extend of the emotional impact that would have on the Manhattan after the plan was carried through. I was under the imppression that Veidt only planned for the plot to get Manhattan off the planet so he couldn't stop the attacks. Veidt was also setting Manhattan up to be a phantom threat, much like the squid, but it also seems that he was planning to kill off Manhattan to carry that through. Maybe to keep Earth forever searching for something that doesn't exist? That plan backfires, but Manhattan leaves Earth anyway after all that emotional trama. It seems to fit way too nicely.

And then there's that whole issue with Dan and Laurie fighting crime after the fact, which didn't dawn on me. You're right - that's going to be REALLY AWKWARD.

Date: 2009-03-20 01:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pyat.livejournal.com
I'm thinking of when Laurie slams the button of the flame thrower at the end.

Though, that happens in the comic, doesn't it?

Date: 2009-03-20 01:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lee-in-limbo.livejournal.com
Yes, I believe it was meant to be symbolic, back when the comic could only get away with a few silhouettes and a bit of music, which I seem to recall was NOT Leonard Cohen.

Lee.

Date: 2009-03-20 01:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pyat.livejournal.com
It was Nat King Cole in the comic, yeah.

Date: 2009-03-20 01:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lee-in-limbo.livejournal.com
Actually, I'm looking at it right now, and there isn't a musical cue during the sex scene (which takes up one page of thirteen small panels), but there is one just before the scene starts, and the music was Billie Holiday's You're My Thrill.

Lee.

Date: 2009-03-20 02:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pyat.livejournal.com
You must have the alternate... um... Swedish version. Yes.

*runs away*

Date: 2009-03-20 02:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] commanderteddog.livejournal.com
I honestly couldn't remember if that was in the comic or not. o_o

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